Selling to Government
Watch this webinar to learn about Accenture Federal Services and tech Vice President Tom Greiner is most excited about, common technology challenges he sees the government working to solve, innovation circles, and more.
Meg:
I want to welcome everyone to our Dcode Virtual Series. I’m Meg Vorland, I’m the Chief Strategy Officer at Dcode. So I oversee our Accelerate program. I also oversee our work on getting training into the federal government. Dcode, if you have not heard of us before, we are driving dual-use technology and innovation into the federal space by connecting the tech industry and government. And so we’re really excited to have Tom here today. We have worked with over a 100 tech companies. We’ve worked with over 500 leaders at the DOD and elsewhere on critical challenges, critical mission challenges that high leaders are trying to solve every day. And since we’ve gone into this virtual mode, we’ve expanded to doing this Dcode virtual session. We’ve been hosting Dcode virtual sessions with awesome leaders from the Dcode community on topics that are on people’s minds.
So as we kick off this conversation, feel free to drop a question in the chat. I will sprinkle side questions into the conversation as well as hopefully we’ll have some time at the end to run through some rapid fire. So please share as many questions as you have in the chat and we’ll try and get to as many as possible. But it is my honor and pleasure to welcome and introduce Tom Greiner. So Tom is responsible for Accenture Federal’s technology business, if I could put that in a really short snippet.
But he oversees the solution development and delivery of technology-related programs across the federal systems, integration, technology consulting, application management, and IT infrastructure. So really, really big job at Accenture. And we love our private sector partners who are making the government better and pushing for this modernization. So it is my pleasure to welcome Tom coming to us from his house on a horse farm in Clifton, Virginia. So welcome Tom.
Tom:
Thank you very much, Meg. Great to be here with y’all.
Meg:
So glad to have you. So I just mentioned you are coming to us from your horse farm. I imagine you’ve spent the last few months or a more amount of time on your farm than you expected to over the last couple of months. How has that been and how are you coping there?
Tom:
So I feel, one, first off, fortunate to have the space to get outside and enjoy being out in nature. I was living in Arlington before and had people crammed on either side of me, and that was a lot a different experience. I suspect the last three months would’ve been way different in Arlington than it is out here. So about 20 acres and I spend a lot of time mowing. I do all my own mowing. I love it. It’s totally therapeutic. Like at work you feel like some days you have a lot of meetings and you may or may not get a lot done. Here I mow for half an hour and I’m like, look at what I got done.
Meg:
Are you going patterns or is it all in one line?
Tom:
I do try to be efficient. Just get it done too.
Meg:
Get in, get out. That makes sense. All right, so when we think about the hottest tech areas that are coming to us on the government side, what are you seeing from Accenture Federal’s position as those hot tech areas that we should keep an eye on?
Tom:
Right on. So maybe what’s a little bit different about us and our value proposition for the government is we’ve been doing a lot of this tech in the commercial sector and we have the advantage, I guess, of having been out on with organizations who are more willing to get out on the very front end of a lot of this stuff, to then figure out what works to curate it and bring it to government. So it’s finally our time in this industry, which is great. Great. So it seems like DOD in particular is valuing that story, and actually through their other transaction authority often trying to buy that access to that. So great for us.
So back to your question of that’s who we are and why we care about this space and what we bring. The areas I would say that strike me as reasonably hot are we’ve seen XR picking up of late and IoT it was starting to get a bit of traction, and interestingly, IoT’s security is increasingly getting traction. We’ve had a number of conversations with senior, very large agency leaders asking like, oh my goodness, what do we do about that space? And it’s nice. Thankfully, the larger parent firm we’re a part of has done a wonderful job acquiring point capabilities and they’ve brought on both simation and revolution security, Rev Sec, who both have expertise in the ICS, SCADA, PLC security areas. So when you ask the question of I have a sock, do I ask my sock people to respond when the garage door open or gets hacked at our facility? Who solves that?
And thankfully we have a pretty well steep point of view on how do you create an incident response team for OT technology hacks and how do you defend that environment differently than how you defend an IT environment, et cetera. So we’re having that dialogue more and more. So my sense is that agencies are starting to wake up to that being a threat vector they hadn’t fully considered and trying to figure out what do they about it.
Meg:
Is that a place where you feel like you’ve solved some of the challenges in the private sector that you’re pulling over?
Tom:
Yeah. So those are proven capabilities and oil and gas for example, where they’ve been having to secure their pumping and distribution systems for a while now. We have national adversaries who are particularly interested in messing with that patch. So they’ve had a hardened years ago and we’re taking some of those learnings and bringing them over to how are we securing our bases and how are we securing other facilities and moving parts in the field. And the other area that we’re seeing, I think, increasing traction with a blade back to XR or VR is that augmented field maintenance worker.
So we have a number of examples that… I can’t cite because I didn’t ask him if I could. But of the field maintenance worker putting on the goggle and/or glasses and getting an overlay for instance of an airplane wing and what are the 200,000 different wires and connections that sit under that wing so they know where am I digging in and how can I be most efficient with the time I’m spending here? The other cool example is in the auto without further attribution on the auto assembly line, having workers doing similar tasks, each wearing their goggles and getting tips from their buddies who figure out a quicker way to do it. So using AI to measure how effective was this versus the standard procedure. And if it’s better, how do we promote it into standard procedure and promulgate it real time so that others can take advantage of that learning and just get faster, faster, better, better. So early days on that, but it’s pretty cool.
Meg:
How have seen the transition from some of those commercial sector use cases into the government use cases? Have there been barriers to entry on the government side that you maybe didn’t have or you did have, you just had to deal with them sooner on the commercial side?
Tom:
Yeah, the use cases transfer very clearly. The government side, if we’re going into top secret, there are network limitations of what we can do on SIPRNet or JUX. There are even basic cloud security requirements for products that really work well in the commercial patch. But when you plant them in a Gulf Cloud environment, you need to make sure it passes the FedRAMP spec. And agencies are, as you know, increasingly asking for that or impact level four or five. And it’s just a minimum necessary threshold increasingly that cloud-based solutions need to go through just to be credible in the market. And I think at a minimum you need to be in process and have a 3PAO already working with you to get the nod of, okay, this is an in-flight procurement, but by the time you feel this, it needs to be FedRAMP compliance. So we can get started, but you got to give me assurance you’re going to get there by that date, and then don’t miss it. So we’re seeing some flexibility around that in procurements.
Meg:
So what we see as a huge challenge for a lot of the folks that we work with is that FedRAMP is such a high beared entry. How are you working with companies that you haven’t acquired or haven’t acquired yet or whatever that looks like, to make sure that you can to leverage your FedRAMP certification and help them along?
Tom:
Yeah, so FedRAMP, as you know, is all about the different layers of the control boundaries. And so we have a platform we call… Well we’ve rebranded it a thousand times, but it’s AIP in short, Accenture Insights platform, possibly rebranded to Applied Intelligence Platform, whatever. It’s AIP either way. And if I had to describe it, it’s really a three-layer cake of presentation layer tools, data manipulation layer tools, and data storage tools. And what’s interesting is we’ve worked with each of those software companies to get a rent-to-own deal or pay-as-you-go deal where they’re not doing that in the general market.
You have to buy an annual license for product X if you’re going to do that one-off as an agency. So we’ve created this platform where you can assemble the right combination of, hey, this one I’m going to do Tableau and SPSS sitting on Hadoop to go study fraud analytics. But my organization has a need to go in three weeks, go answer a question on video analytics and looking at drone feeds and looking for anomalies.
And I’m not using that tech stack for that. Maybe I want Tableau sitting on SaaS and on a Cloudera stack and I don’t want to buy all those licenses. I got a lot of different analytics funds, but I don’t want to buy different licenses for every preferred set. Well, you can come to us and just rent the platform and then just pay as you go for the pieces that you use. Nice. So there are new pieces being introduced all the time. Like new technology products again, that the firm at large is starting to deploy and have success with occasionally. We are the first interim with our federal version of it, and we have to help those new companies get over the FedRAMP portal and go through the 3PAO process. But the whole architecture they sit on has already been hardened from a FedRAMP process. So just the software layer insertion without having… They get the inheritance of all the controlled posture we otherwise have.
Meg:
Yeah. So hopefully also reducing the cost, reducing the time to entry. You also hopefully have a really good partner in that to make sure that there’s a good go-to-market strategy. There’s a reason to do it. Right? Got it.
So along similar lines, so I know that Accenture put out the modernized with impact report. And I’m not going to make you tell us all about it and all of the findings. But it seems to me that there are leaders in the modernization efforts in the federal government and then there are some places that are further behind. I also won’t make you name names. But what can those lagers or those folks that are a little bit further behind on their modernization journey, what can they learn from the folks that are out front and have been out front?
Tom:
Yeah, I think one of the biggest differences is the tone from the top and a culture of hesitancy and fear versus experimentation and willingness to fail and try again. And I totally respect the caution when it comes to protecting citizen data, et cetera, but there are a number of use cases that you can test the tech in your ability to implement it without having to get into the heart of your mission systems, just to know what the art of the possible is and the things you need to knock down. Why we often, when we’re launching a new full stack website will first launch this site is under development. Just what is the process? How do we get the DevOps tooling working properly to get that site stood up and get it through the security posture and approval process?
There are a lot of learnings just getting the first page landed and out there and everyone with it. And like, huh, okay, now we understood the roadblocks and the constraints and the opportunities and how we can tweak and go faster. Now let’s actually start building the playable code and getting it out there. So to me, the difference is more cultural and tone from the top than it is anything more tactical or mission focused that I would point at.
Meg:
As part of this Dcode Virtual Series, I’ve had several conversations with leaders from different agencies and departments that have talked about how covid and this transfer to remote work where you can do remote work and things like that, has really, I would say, driven towards some additional modernization efforts. Have you seen that on the Accenture Federal side that these are efforts that… Were these efforts already underway and this is just a great excuse? Or are we really seeing a mind shift in the federal space to go more towards that modernization?
Tom:
Yeah, I think both modernization and acceptance of virtual as a viable work model, we’re definitely seeing the adoption of that. So in some cases we were working with agencies moving slowly towards say implementing teams. And when Covid hit, they’re like, we need 60,000 people on it in a week. We’re like, “All right, then we will help you.”
Meg:
Great, we’re here for you.
Tom:
And I think the really the digital platform partners, we put them in this category digital platform. So Salesforce, ServiceNow, Pega Dynamics, Appian, a handful of them in particular came to the table pretty early with pre-built solutions for doing contact tracing and emergency response and command center understanding of what’s happening in all my facilities and what’s my risk posture to my employees and contractors as we open facilities. If something happens, how do we get in front of it? So I think we’re seeing an uptake not only in just getting the telecom and tech to do remote working and on the more tactical dealing with the reopening process and how do we get in front of it.
What’s interesting and I think important is we’re also seeing uptake of a change management offering we have around that. So to say, how do you work effectively in a remote team environment? And so much of what we’ve been doing lately is this whole customer infused design thinking in a studio environment and co-creating. Well, guess what? We got to do that virtually and how do we help them do that? Even absent using us as a partner, how do they just do this on their own? And then can we also do some work with them and show them the art of the possible of these virtual collaboration rooms and virtual whiteboards and post-it note collection sites and still recreate as much of that studio experience as we can.
Meg:
So we went virtual on some of our training offerings. So we do training for the government on how to implement emerging tech to solve their challenges. Actually a procurement training on innovative procurement methodologies, and all that had to go virtual really quickly. And so you can have all the tools in the world, but you actually have to rethink how you’re doing the work because it can’t just be… It’s not a one-for-one switch. So it’s not surprising to me that you’ve seen an uptick in that because having just gone through a whole bunch of virtualization, I know that’s very, very challenging and especially when you want to be so collaborative and inclusive.
Tom:
Right on. Right on. And it really gets in the heart of adult learning and engagement. And so I think the work environment will be changed hereafter. And part of what excites me about that is helping… As we were talking before this call, we have 1,800 people in our San Antonio facility and the firm at large has mastered this offshore model for the last 10 years, building up these massive delivery centers who have great scale and capability and they really are a trusted source of delivery at this point. And it still takes some pushing from me and others to help even our own internal account teams work with their clients to shift some of that work to San Antonio to mirror some of the value delivery that we’ve seen the firm at large master over offshore what we’re just trying to do in San Antonio and getting people to stop clutching onto the collar of the staffer that they’re used to seeing every day. It’s a change, but I think the last three months might accelerate that natural progression.
Meg:
Although as the internal extrovert here, just like, oh man, I can’t wait to see my colleagues.
Tom:
Yeah, right on. I hear you.
Meg:
The horses wouldn’t just do it for me. I’m itching. I’m itching, but I get it. So in the Fed tech spending in response to Covid, we’ve seen a lot of solicitations, we’ve seen a lot of different types of responses. So Air Force had some solicitations go out, just some servers go out. So did DHS, what challenges and opportunities are you seeing for emerging tech to get in the door with some of these rapid response type of solicitations that are coming out?
Tom:
Yeah, I think what’s interesting, we’re seeing some prove it ones where you have to bring your team who will be developing and it is essentially a code off and they want to watch you how you work, how work as a team, what kind of methods you follow. You can talk about agile all day long, but are you actually engaged in an agile way? And when they throw you a curve ball, do you react to it in stride or do you stumble on yourself? So I think those are all good. Let’s just shake it and shake your integrator and test and make sure it’s going to work for you. From a content standpoint, I’m seeing more and more clients lean into data, either from an analytics standpoint or an AI pilot or even RPA, like anything wrapped around data that presupposes data in the cloud and securely managing it. So to me, it’s becoming more and more of a converged environment with, you can’t just be a single one trick pony going with a theme that you see, I told you we’d work in a pony.
Meg:
I’m working on it.
Tom:
And so I think we’re seeing more and more of this convergence of different technologies and capabilities being asked for in the first place by the government. I’ll a commercial example that rattled my head a little bit of just how progressive the change is on data and the what’s afforded by both the cloud compute and cheap storage these days we’re working with an insurance client who has fundamentally changed their model and said, we are no longer going to, at the time we’re asked to give a quote, take the information about the certain property and go off and do our research and send out an assessor. And they’re like, we can stream data and store information on every property in the country, every real estate parcel in the country and every automobile in the country all day long, every day.
And keep just our latest patch of information, including any video captures from security and highway cameras and the like. And we can look at corrosion and likely repair costs and what our AI algorithms probably going to land at 98% approximate accuracy on the appraisal worth of that information. We can give you a quote real time, you can ping us and we’ll ping you back a quote that will stand by real time. No more delay, no more. It’s like that is a different world. Changing the consumer experience pretty dramatically can’t be that long till we can start applying some of that same capability given cloud compute and storage costs coming down to a lot of the day-to-day problems we’re seeing across federal.
Meg:
So not always do we have data as the data is sexy, usually it’s like data’s in the background and you have to get it right to do the other sexy stuff. So what are other common problem sets you’re seeing across federal agencies and you’re working to solve? I assume data’s in there.
Tom:
Yeah, of course data’s in there. I think there’s an increased appetite generally just for IT modernization at some scale. You know, look at the news feeds on Accenture Federal for the last year and you’ll see some pretty sizable at scale wins in that regard. And most common in that discussion is I got a lot of workloads running in a on-prem environment. I’m both getting pushed from on high and I’m starting to buy into the fact that I probably should be moving a chunk of this to a cloud somehow-
Meg:
15 years later.
Tom:
And the cloud’s getting so much more complicated. I think just this week, Amazon for example, rolled out snow cone now, like they snow ball, snow cone, snow mobile, lots of different sizes and they rolled out local zones as well as outpost. You Azure stack takeaway compute at the edge. They have these local zones, little community zones now as well as the government dedicated. So just understanding what combination of things do I need? Why? For how long? What’s the right mix of hybrid environment and poly cloud environment getting hard? And I think they increasingly could benefit from some help in that discussion. And so we’re seeing that thematically, I’d say the at scale, what do I do with all my workloads and if I’m going to refactor them to the point earlier, that whole digital platform layer is just an obvious replacement. And if you’re going to go, go big, at least that would be our story. Is like, hey, of your 17,000 applications, probably 5,000 of them need to be in one of these digital platforms.
So let us help you or you on your own, do your own bake-off on what are the one or two you want to standardize on, and then let’s create a delivery factory that can lower the average cost per widget to get it migrated or refactored, and let’s come up with some repeatable standard so that they’re much more maintainable by whomever maintains it on the other side. So lower average cost per widget and higher quality, more consistent output on the other side. And that works if you don’t split it into a thousand procurements for every single workload, but instead just treat it as a massive real estate around which you’re going to crank a think factory out and move. So that’s our story and it seems to work pretty well.
Meg:
As long as you’re also getting that good emerging tech in. And I think you guys do work with some great emerging tech companies and tech companies that are probably more notable, frankly, on the commercial side, that will then be able to work with you to make sure that their security posture is hardened and things like that. And that’s what we work with a lot of companies on to actually service the government client.
Tom:
If it helps, I can give you 60 seconds on our innovation architecture, which I think is helpful.
Meg:
Yeah, definitely.
Tom:
We have innovation centers and curators who sit in to 12 different countries or cities right now. So I think Paris, London, Tel Aviv, San Francisco, New York, DC, a handful of others. And they are looking at the local startup market in those areas, and are percolating up kind of the best of thoughts. So we have a closest circle of about 300 of those companies who were like, Hmm, they’re up and coming. They might be early series, but they got tech that we really need to know and our clients need to know about. And then we have accelerators and academic institutions that select ones at least that are in that next circle. And all told, maybe it’s 1200, but in the tighter circle, maybe 300 ish. And even some of those we’ll invest in if we’re like, hmm, we want a piece of that. But more importantly, it’s just such a leverageable architecture when a client comes to us and then like, hey, we’re having this problem. Isn’t there anything out there that can solve it?
We can send a challenge question to that group or subset of the group, maybe the 20 of whom we think might have a point of view on it. They come back and the client and we will pick through and be like, all right, these three merit a day, a piece of just sitting at a whiteboard and figuring out what their best answer would, be given their responses. And just help be the matchmaker between government problem or commercial problem and the whole startup world of best thinking latest tech. So we love being in that matchmaker role.
Meg:
And we love being a partner in that. Because it is so important that the government is getting access to that technology that the commercial sector gets access to much more easily, I guess, and that the companies are prepped for success so that they know what are the security standards, what’s the delta, what’s the difference? Hey, I’m already working in some highly regulated environments. You talked about insurance, banking and even oil and gas and how do I make that jump into the government as another line? And I think Accenture Federal is one path in for sure.
Tom:
Right on. Yeah, I think you guys provide a wildly valuable service, so keep doing what you do.
Meg:
We will. So I wanted to take a quick second to remind everyone, throw questions in the chat. We will get through as many as we possibly can. But as you have questions for Tom, throw them in the chat. Some softballs, anything about, I think horse farms would be great. But no, any and all questions, throw them in the chat and we’ll continue the conversation. So we talk a lot about making the move to manage service. Which parts go, what goes to the cloud? What stays on prem? What do I actually need to outsource as a managed service? What do I need the actual capabilities in-house? Can you talk a little bit about how you and Accenture Federal see the talent scarcity and what sectors, what areas and what you’re doing to try and solve some of those challenges?
Tom:
Right on. So I think maybe three areas. Cyber, cloud and analytics. And analytics, we’ve solved that really by coming up with that standard rentable platform that we can then just apply data scientists to in a consistent and repeatable way so they can move from project to project and have a common toolkit that they use to solve problems, which makes it easier for them to get productive and just dig into the client’s data environment and not worry about their tooling. We got them covered. I would say cyber and cloud, in our case, we’ve moved both of those into a managed service environment because we’re seeing the demand at the client site. And frankly we see enough talent challenges, let alone we have whatever, 250 projects across 70 accounts. For us, it’s important that in some cases we have centralized talent who are expert at doing a thing and don’t just sprinkle them onto accounts and then there are winners and losers of those account teams and then they get mad because they don’t all have the best person.
And so we’re trying to increasingly create these common pools where people are executing what we now brand our XDR for, our managed detection and response capability in cyber run out of San Antonio, 24/7 operation, great feeding pool of talent down there with a former 24th, I guess now 25th whatever they are, Air Force and Intel community. There’s a lot of cleared really bright cyber folks in the San Antonio area. And we have figured out like wouldn’t it be great if someone could come to market with a fed rant machine speed reading, correlation detection engine that’ll find bad guys or bad things happening in your environment and do all the RPA driven automated remediation that comes on the other side of it using Phantom, Demisto and products of that ilk.
So, machine speed detection, machine speed remediation. Not all clients are willing to just hand you all their logs and do that, especially if you need to do it in. Like, I already have the Amazon, I already have Splunk, I already have Palo Alto. Why do I need to pay for that in your environment? And in that case, I would say my lesson learned in the early days of moving to managed service and cyber and in cloud is the provider community are going to need to be flexible in our delivery models such that we can marry a little bit of onsite support with remote support and get them comfortable that this is a team sport and we can each play a role in securing the joint or getting it operating competently in a cloud environment.
Meg:
Yeah, yeah. Excellent. So a couple questions. So this tags onto something we were talking to a little bit earlier. So I’m an emerging tech company, how do I get in? So I know that you have your regions, you have things like Dcode for sure, but how should I get in? What is my best in the door?
Tom:
Yeah, yeah. I think the most compelling thing for an SI is whether you’re coming to us or a Booz or Deloitte or CACI and any of us characters in town, coming with not just a cool tech, but a cool tech and a proven client story. Like I did this in commercial and here’s a proxy scenario that feels like it would work for you. Even better is coming with, I have cool tech and I have a federal client that would love it. Can you help me get the dot connected? Because you have the prime contract that has the scope of operations that appears to include this thing. Like win, win, win, why wouldn’t we start that journey?
So those conversations we love to have. And then I’d be working frankly with you guys and 3PAO and helping them, if it’s a cloud-based solution, helping them get down that path quickly. How do they get a provisional ATO to get rolling enough to, by the time we put it live, we can have some assurance. We’ve collectively gone through that process. We don’t want to be left hanging on that solution patch and be like, oh, we thought we would get through the 3PAO but we didn’t and it’s not going to live there and we can’t deploy a solution. That’s not a good conversation to have.
Meg:
So what are the reasons agencies are using for not moving into that world of picking a digital platform or two and refactoring all their applications? Why are they not doing it?
Tom:
Yeah, I think it’s a bias toward the preference of the technology leaders and lead architects at the agency. Frankly, if they have a commitment say to a Java or .net stack, and that’s their preferred development shop and most of their interaction is complex online that doesn’t marry well with either the, let’s pick the ServiceNow, Intel based request and fulfillment model or the Salesforce CRM model. If it doesn’t fit the basis of that and you can’t reasonably extrapolate it, though frankly those two platforms and their other three major peers are all very capable of doing a lot of things these days. But I think there’s still a bias of being able get around any constraints in any one of those platforms with the nimbleness that having a full stack development environment enables. So you’re trading standardization and perhaps ease of maintenance and not worrying about the cloud portion of it because it’s SaaS hosted. And in return you’re getting more flexibility from a development nuance standpoint. So it’s kind of what are you trying to solve for.
Meg:
Yeah. So another question from the field. There’s been lots of conversation around continuous ATOs, but that’s talking about accrediting the process, not necessarily the product. Do you have any thoughts on how to accelerate the ATO process? Government writ large for emerging impact?
Tom:
I will say for one particularly secretive agency of some note.
Meg:
Got it.
Tom:
We worked very closely with their lead security officer and walked through all the tooling that our DevOps process would entail. And they got to a point of comfort in a month of conversation with exactly what kind of code and how it will move through the stack and into the various deployment environments. To the point where they said, “I’m comfortable with that stack. If you can tell me and show me that something has gone through that stack, I can give you an ATO in three weeks.” Something that’s outside of that stack is going to be at least a nine-month process. So it created a very strong incentive for people to use that stack.
And with us being in a position there of having set up the DevOps wrapper and doing the hand-to-hand negotiations/combat/ convincing with the different development teams of why this is good for them, that was a helpful tool in our arsenal to say, Hey man, it’s three weeks versus nine months. It was helpful to get more onboarded. Now we have, I don’t know, last count it was 8,000 developers doing 12,000 builds a day using that same common approved platform. So it took a while to get there and a lot of convincing and cajoling, but having that sort of rapid ATO assurance was certainly a helpful motivator.
Meg:
Yeah, absolutely. So I will preface this last question with, other than going through the Dcode accelerate program, do you have any tips for small businesses with veteran status that are trying to break into federal contracting as a Microsoft partner? And is solution diversification the right way forward?
Tom:
I wouldn’t trend toward solution diversification. I would trend toward solution specialization. I think it’s hard to differentiate in this world, and the broader you are without scale kind of the less interesting. So you could be huge and then you could tell a scale story like I told on digital platforms. Or you could be specialized and then maybe once you’re in, grow off the back of that. So if I were opening a Microsoft shop today, I would dig hard into the power apps platform and XR and make that the two things that I was just the bomb diggity on and maybe Azure PAS services. And if you could specialize in all three of those, the world is your oyster for the next 10 years.
Meg:
Absolutely. And like you said earlier, if you’re coming to us and you’re saying we are the best at this, this is where we see this use case, it’s a lot more compelling across the board to any systems integrator to also be partnering and solution selling together.
Tom:
Right on. Yeah, and especially if you come with, and I already talked to government program manager, Susie, and she thinks this would be good too. That’s a really easy conversation to have.
Meg:
All right, well I want to thank you so much Tom for joining us today. This was a very enjoyable conversation and I’m sorry I didn’t get enough horse jokes in, but maybe next time. But thank you again for joining.